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[00:00:00] Lesley Whitehead: Hi, beautiful. This is your host, Lesley Whitehead, and I am so
excited to share this bold, brave, badass, creative woman with you. I hope our conversation
inspires you not to let anything get in the way of your passion projects. I promise you, we need
whatever is on your heart to create for this world.
[00:00:26] Hi, beautiful. Today, my guest is Natalie Miller, a feminist mindset coach for creatives
and entrepreneurs. She writes podcasts, knits, cooks, and mothers, two teen girls, two naughty
dogs, and a jungle of plants. Natalie loves discovering that wisdom is equal parts knowing a lot
and accepting that we know very, very little. Welcome, Natalie. Thank you so much for being my
guest on my podcast. I’m so grateful.
[00:01:02] Natalie Miller: Ahh! I’m so happy to be here, and as you were introducing me, I’m so
happy that you know my bad dogs and my amazing daughters. And you have in fact
photographed me in my jungle of house plans, which I also love.
[00:01:16] Lesley Whitehead: I have, and that was such gift. Before we get started though, I
want to ask how young are you?
[00:01:22] Natalie Miller: How young am I? I am 46 years young.
[00:01:25] Lesley Whitehead: 46 years young. Okay. And the reason why I asked that question
is because, this podcast is technically me interviewing women 50 plus but because of you, I
know that, um, I can break my own rules. So,
[00:01:43] Natalie Miller: Yes!
[00:01:44] Lesley Whitehead: Thanks to you. So I, um, did a project, which I keep talking about
on here called the 55 Women Project. And that was a couple of years ago in 2021, when I was
living in Denver and I had a top five. I don’t know if these women are going to say yes, but they
are my kind of Oprah women, my reach, my, who knows? And you were one of them. Do know
that?
[00:02:08] Natalie Miller: No! God, that’s so flattering. Of course I said yes. Oh my gosh. I was
thrilled to say yes
[00:02:15] Lesley Whitehead: And I was so, I was giddy. I could not shut up to all my friends
about it. I’m like, Natalie is going to be in my 55 Women, um, project. And I get to photograph
her and meet her family and meet Kevin,
[00:02:26] Natalie Miller: Yes.
[00:02:27] Lesley Whitehead: her naughty dog.
[00:02:29] Natalie Miller: My naughtiest dog, yes.
[00:02:32] Lesley Whitehead: And it was such treat, and it was such a gift, and I just have to
say thank you again for doing that because truly I really appreciate it. It taught me that you need
to ask. You need to ask, right? So, I met you, Natalie, in another group that you were coaching
in, that’s how I, um, heard about you first. And, I got a girl crush on you and that’s how it all

started. And I was just so impressed with how, and it was a, it was a huge group that you were
coaching, how you were able to connect with that person very quickly, and then also to the
group as a whole. Because I felt like whether you were being coached or not, it just felt like we
were supposed to be hearing whatever was being heard. How do you do that? How does that
work? I don’t understand.
[00:03:24] Natalie Miller: Yeah. You know, If I may be so bold, I will say I do have a gift for that.

[00:03:30] Lesley Whitehead: I believe that.
[00:03:31] Natalie Miller: I’m going to say there’s kind of three components. One is that I truly
do believe that what is most individual to any of us is also most universal. It’s like the thing that
you think no one else could possibly like has had this experience or, or could, could understand
this difficulty. Like the thing that is very, very, very most unique, is in so many ways, like it’s your
piece of the humanity puzzle. And so when we shine light on it, it is illuminated for all of us. And
we, we all connect to it in different ways. And so that’s just kind of philosophical, is that I believe
the most individual is the most universal. So that’s kind of, you know, the foundational belief.
[00:04:24] So on top of that, I have a couple of past careers and past lives. I’ve done a lot in my
46 years on the planet. And so for a little more than a decade, I was a yoga instructor. And in
yoga instruction, in the kind that I did anyway, one thing that we learned to do was to use a
demo to illustrate something. And so when, when you’re a yoga teacher and you’re gonna use a
demo, um, this would be not with my own body, but I would choose a student that I could. teach
very specifically and show other people maybe like modifications to a pose or, sort of specificity,
like specific alignment in a pose.
[00:05:17] And so that like choosing the person was a skill that I, that I developed there. And I
would, you know, I would generally choose someone that I’m like, okay, I can see that this
person is going to be able to show us all how to unlock this kind of thing. And it, it always felt a
little bit risky because you’re like, boy, I hope I’m right, but I was pretty much always right. I was
always right.
[00:05:47] Yeah. Yeah. And so then the third part, right? So there’s the kind of like the
philosophical, the most individual is the most universal. And then there’s the second part, which
is like, we can use one person’s example to unlock something for, for everyone. the third piece
is, um, I’m an extraordinary coach. Like I really…
[00:06:11] Lesley Whitehead: I second that.
[00:06:12] Natalie Miller: Thank you. Yeah. I I, and I will say it like, you know, of course, as I say
that there’s like a tiny part of me that’s like, bitch…
[00:06:19] Lesley Whitehead: No, own it, own it, own it.
[00:06:21] Natalie Miller: But yeah, but right. So, so I’m very, very, very good at it. And I think
what makes me very good at it is like, there is a way in which, like I get so present with the
person and with the, the kind of the fuller group dynamic that I’m just, I’m able to coach in a way
that does feel like it is for all of us, me included. You know, Lesley, I have a real aversion, like
the, the usual way that people do group coaching is a stand in line method, right? Where it’s
like, everybody stands in line with their one problem. And then like, okay, who’s next? Who’s
next. And I just always like, see it as like, no, this is a group experience and every group is full of
individuals and all of these individuals are here because they connect.
[00:07:16] And so it’s kind of, yeah, I think that’s, that’s how I learned to do it over time was just
through really tapping into my own, I guess, like skills and talents, but then more than anything,
truly believing that, like, we’re here together for a reason. We’re here to learn with and from each

other.
[00:07:38] Lesley Whitehead: Co-creating is a big term you use a lot. And I think of you
whenever I hear that and co-creating this podcast and co-creating, you know whatever’s going
on. So I appreciate you sharing that for sure, because that is something that, a term I hadn’t
used before or really heard, frankly.
[00:07:54] So before we go into more about your coaching, I do want to back up a little bit. So
you were in this group program, you left the group program, and then you started, I’m sure you
were coaching individually at the time, but I didn’t know you, this was me from afar. And then,
um, you started your podcast Mind Witchery, which I immediately became addicted to. I did not
miss.
[00:08:19] It comes out on Thursday morning. I did not miss it. I would take a walk and listen to
you, you were in my head every Thursday and it’s been a beautiful experience. Even going back
and listening to the previous episodes. it was just beautiful and it was so helpful and it was
always very timely for me. So will you talk a little bit about how Mind Witchery came about and,
and tell them a little bit about it?
[00:08:45] Natalie Miller: Yeah. So the big group that we met inside, the big group that I left,
um, I didn’t leave happily. Or willingly. I didn’t leave happily or willingly. And, um, yeah, it was a
very, oh, gosh. Sometimes I think back to that time. This is like very early 2021. Lesley, I don’t
know how any of us made it through all of that. Like, how did we do it? I don’t really know.
[00:09:14] Lesley Whitehead: Well, and can I just, I’ll just insert very quickly that I never knew
that. You could not tell, being in the group, you couldn’t tell it all that that was going on. You were
a perfect professional and you kept that to yourself.
[00:09:30] Natalie Miller: Well, thank you. So, so, so basically I, I went from having, what felt
like three full-time jobs to, um, being back on my own as a solopreneur very abruptly. And it’s
2021, so it is like height the pandemic. I think the vaccines have like just come out, but you
know, it’s, we’re still very locked down. Um, But I had a partner who I met who had, who had
gotten together with a year previously, and we lived together. And so, you know, he would, he
would overhear me teaching, he would overhear me, talking on the phone, he was like, um, he
would just, he would hear me, um, describing things. And as he did, he was like, honey, you
really should have a podcast.
[00:10:32] And it’s not something that I had ever thought about. I was not one of those people
that was you know what, I’m gonna, you know, it’s going to unlock my marketing and whatever.
Right. Um, also, I had been on, other people’s podcasts and those episodes did very well. So I
did have like a little, I had a little, um, you know. What do they call it? Social proof. I had a little, I
had a little social proof that like, yes, people might like it. Um, and then I had this partner who
was super, super encouraging and I had a lot of time on my hands, right?
[00:11:08] My, um, so I, played with the idea, like what, what could it possibly be? And of course,
um, in the shower, I was in the shower one day and I was like, you know, like what I would love
to do is just give people different ways of thinking about things. Like, you know, we have this one
way of thinking about, let’s say rest, or perfectionism, or our inner critic, or procrastination, you
know?
[00:11:42] We have this culturally shaped way of thinking about these things and I thought, you
know, I just, I think about them so differently. I have such a different perspective. What if I kind of
leaned into the countercultural, you know, live at the very edge of town witchiness that I have
and call Mind Witchery. And what if the episodes were spells? What if the episodes were spells
where you could kind of cast a spell in your brain and then all of a sudden think really differently
about,

[00:12:16] Lesley Whitehead: Capitalism.
[00:12:17] Natalie Miller: I don’t like, yeah, all the things. Yeah. All the things. Um, so, so that’s
the kind of longer story about how Mind Witchery came about.
[00:12:26] Lesley Whitehead: It is truly a gift and the one you did most recently on, it wasn’t on
capitalism, but it had that, um, you were talking about it and I want to share that with my
daughters. And I do share a lot of the episodes with them, but it is definitely a treat and it’s
almost like, being coached without the back and forth, but you’re hearing exactly what you need
to hear from and probably everybody who listens, take something different away. Do you find
people tell you that when they listen?
[00:12:55] Natalie Miller: You know, um, yes, every week I get lots and lots and lots of
messages of like, do you have cameras in my house? Like basically, like that is exactly what I
needed to hear. How did you know or whatever? And, and I will say Lesley, like from a creative
standpoint, that podcast like coaching, I just get very, very present with what I’ve been, where
my curiosity has been led in the previous week.
[00:13:31] I, I never, much to my staff’s chagrin, I never plan episodes in advance. I really do just
kind of say, you know, I just like, can’t stop thinking about. X, or Y, or whatever, and then that’s
what I record about, and um, I think that’s part of the magic of it, and part of the reason that it
does tap into people, you know? I mean, again, it’s, it feels co-created. It’s like, I’m not coming
up with the concepts. The concepts are coming to me, and I’m, I’m opening up to pull them
through with my perspective. That’s what it feels like.
[00:14:11] Lesley Whitehead: That’s exactly what it sounds like too. It’s so beautiful. And thank
you.
[00:14:15] Natalie Miller: Well, the other thing actually, Lesley, I wanted to say, because, um, I
think especially in this day, this day and age, you know, so many people, um, like you say, have
their second act, their third act, like so many, so many of us are starting anew with a career. And
this is the other thing I wanted to say. I don’t teach yoga anymore. I invested a lot of time and
money in becoming a yoga teacher and owning a yoga studio. I sort of did that career for 12
years and then I, I found the end of it. That, that road ended for me.
[00:14:54] But. When you listen to Mind Witchery, and maybe even actually as you’re listening to
me right now, you can tell that I learned how to use my voice and I learned how to hold space
energetically through teaching yoga. So, I am no longer a yoga teacher, however, I absolutely
use certain of the skills that I cultivated in my yoga teaching in my podcasting for sure.
[00:15:27] And I like to say that because I think that, you know, sometimes we can be like giant
shrug. What was that all for? Why was I a lawyer for five years? What was I thinking? And it’s
like, oh no, it was always for something. There was some, something you were honing there.
There was some skill that you were, cultivating that you get to use now in this place where
you’re meant to be now.
[00:15:52] Lesley Whitehead: I love that. And that is the perfect segue into the next thing I want
to talk about, which is your beautiful, um, Sunday newsletter. It’s not called a newsletter, though.
You call it a…
[00:16:03] Natalie Miller: Call the Sunday letter. I call it just, yeah, I call it the Sunday letter,
Lesley, so my ass will send it out on Sunday, I will tell you that.
[00:16:14] Lesley Whitehead: Brilliant!
[00:16:14] Natalie Miller: Because I need that little, I need that little bit of accountability to
actually write the damn thing.

[00:16:20] Lesley Whitehead: And do you feel it’s the same? It’s very organic and you come up
with it when you sit down to write?
[00:16:26] Natalie Miller: Absolutely. I sit down on Sunday morning with a cup of coffee and
sometimes I start thinking about it on Saturday night or Saturday, you know, I start thinking like,
hmm, what’s, what is it lately, that’s coming through? And then I sit and I, I write it right there.
My, my amazing, um, assistant who I could not live without, um, Sami, she has it all set up for
me, so I just have to go in there and, and type whatever the letter is, whatever the message
coming through is, but yeah, that’s how that works.
[00:17:01] Lesley Whitehead: So what I was saying about segue into that was because in your,
in a previous life, you were an English, not just major, but you were going for your PhD. And,
um, so this writing does that feel like an extension of that experience as well?
[00:17:18] Natalie Miller: Oh my gosh. Do you know I had to recover and rehabilitate my ability
to write, Lesley.
[00:17:28] Lesley Whitehead: Well, you’ve done it tenfold.
[00:17:30] Natalie Miller: Well, you cause I went, I went to graduate school, um, I was very
fortunate to be accepted into a very prestigious program with a stipend, like the whole thing. And
I was convinced I wanted to be a professor. I was like, oh, hell yeah, that’s going to be the life for
me. When I was in liberal arts school, the professor’s lives looked amazing. I was like, that’s
what I, I want to, I want to talk to young people about books all day. But in this program, the, it’s
not even focus. Like, the only thing we were learning to do was to be literary critics, and I, and
emphasis on the critic. Like, we were learning to dissect and dismantle other people’s work.
[00:18:21] And I did get to be a TA, which I loved. I got to work in the writing center, which I
loved. I got to teach expository writing, which I loved. But the creating scholarship and being a…
learning how to sharpen my knives to be in the community of like slashers, of slashers, um, that,
that was excruciating to me. So I left graduate school with my master’s degree and three
dissertation chapters left to write. I just, left. And, um, Yes, I just turned and walked away from it.
[00:19:00] And, Lesley, I couldn’t write for years. For years. Because every time I wrote, you
know, what, basically what we would do, we would write something and we would go to seminar
and then all of us would get out our knives and we would tear it apart. And I, I didn’t find it fun
anymore. I didn’t have any confidence anymore. One of my, my advisor, actually, she said,
Natalie, the trouble is neither your ideas nor your way of expressing them is particularly
sophisticated.
[00:19:38] Lesley Whitehead: Oh my god! What a bitch!
[00:19:42] Natalie Miller: I mean, listen, she was a badass. She was a full badass. And, you
know, was trying to, in some way, in her way, inspire me to harden myself and sharpen myself.
But I, I was just like, wow. So, so yeah, so I really had to…
[00:20:03] Lesley Whitehead: It’s like going to rehab.
[00:20:05] Natalie Miller: And it took a lot of time to like recover because I would sit with a blank
screen. I had, I had had in graduate school panic attacks trying to write like, like legitimate, you
know, shaking on the floor, panic attacks, um, before I went on the Lexapro, um, then Lexapro
got me through the next several years. But yeah, so, so part of actually, you know, part of
showing up to write my Sunday letter in the very beginning was, reclaiming that capacity
[00:20:44] Lesley Whitehead: I’m sure.

[00:20:45] Natalie Miller: for myself, yeah, absolutely.
[00:20:48] Lesley Whitehead: Well, you’re doing a beautiful job and I love it. I look forward to it
every Sunday and I love that it’s organically created just like the podcast. So the next thing that I
want to talk about is, um, So you were in this group, you did Mind Witchery, I photographed you.
And then I got, um, an email that you were doing a retreat in Taos. And I just was like, I don’t
know what I have to sell, give blood, give away, but I have to go on this retreat.
[00:21:19] Natalie Miller: Ha ha, yes.
[00:21:21] Lesley Whitehead: I don’t care what I have to do.
[00:21:23] Natalie Miller: We made that shit happen and it was amazing. I loved having you
there.
[00:21:29] Lesley Whitehead: God, I loved being there, it was such a beautiful experience. Will
you describe to everyone what it’s like and then I will also add my descriptions.
[00:21:36] Natalie Miller: I was going to say, I feel like you should describe what it’s like
because I mean, yeah. What, how did you, how would you describe it? If people ask you about
it, how do you describe it?
[00:21:46] Lesley Whitehead: Well the word that comes to mind is magical, first of all, because
it is a magical place. The other thing I would say is the thing that you talk about a lot, which is
spaciousness. Because unlike another, you know, conference or whatever I’ve been to where
it’s like, you have this at nine, this at 10, this at 11, you don’t miss this at 12, you know, it’s, we
are offering these opportunities for you. You may join us or you may stay in your room. Or you
may go for a walk or you may read a book or walk the labyrinth or whatever.
[00:22:20] So there was spaciousness within the whole week of, and also space in between the
activities that were being presented. So that really felt good because I had never experienced
that before going to any kind of conference or retreat or anything. So that was beautiful.
[00:22:39] The women were. Just, I don’t, how do I describe them? Fire. I mean, they were all,
just amazing in their own right. And so, um, unique and creative and they all brought a different
energy and somehow it all works together. And one of things that we were doing was we would
do, um, some coaching sessions in between other activities. And so again, someone would be
coached, or questions would be asked and some, and you would say, you know, do you want to
talk about that or however it was worded. But whatever was being, um, talked about really
resonated for me at least. And I, I know for the other women.
[00:23:23] And then the other thing was I’d never had a reading before and, um, I was definitely
open to it, but we a reading done by Michael, um, and,
[00:23:34] Natalie Miller: He’s, I will say he’s Michael Francis Lott, that’s his, that’s name. Yeah.
He does intuitive, intuitive readings.
[00:23:41] Lesley Whitehead: Yes, I had never done that before. And so it was quite an
amazing experience. And then interestingly, uh, one of the activities that you could go on was
the hot air balloon. And, um, ride and I had done it before, so I thought, well, I’m not going to do
that, this, for this trip. I’m going to do something else. But then when it got a little closer, um,
Sami had reached out and I said, you know what? I’m going, I’m going to go. and that, that in
itself was such a gift. Flying over Taos in a hot air balloon with all these amazing women. And,
um, I can’t remember the gentleman’s name who was our captain, but he had this handlebar
mustache. He was quite a character in of itself. He added to the whole, yes,

[00:24:25] Natalie Miller: Isn’t his name Saul? Yeah. And everybody has a huge crush on Saul.
That’s basically how that goes.
[00:24:32] Lesley Whitehead: We did, and we’ll never fly with anybody else. It was absolutely
beautiful. And then course we also had, there was a day at the spa and that was gorgeous, and
all the food is made right there at, Mabel’s House.
[00:24:46] Natalie Miller: Yeah. Yeah. At the Mabel Dodge Luhan House.
[00:24:50] Lesley Whitehead: Yes. And, and just the history of that house and all of the artists
and creatives who had come before. That energy feels like it’s there. So it was just, life
changing. And then also Mo, King Mo
[00:25:04] took photographs of us. And because I’m a photographer, I don’t get to be on the
other end very often, but there was such a beauty in being able to be on the other side, and
have beautiful pictures, photos taken of me as well as, um, Terry did all our makeup. And, um,
that was wonderful too. So it was one great experience after another, but also that spaciousness
of just, you know, having peace and a place to just be, frankly.
[00:25:38] Natalie Miller: Yeah, so I, I love that you loved it and, it’s funny as you were talking
about it, I can, I just get this slideshow and I can, it’s like a smell o vision of slideshow where I
can feel all different moments, yeah.
[00:25:55] So I started offering retreats back when I was a yoga teacher. Um, I would do these
little weekend retreats. I’ve probably hosted somewhere in the neighborhood of 30 at this point,
I’ve done a lot of retreats. Um, I love them. I think I love them, um, partly because for me, and I,
I bet you agree with this, Lesley, there is nothing quite like travel to remind you how big the
world is, how big you are, who you really are.
[00:26:32] Like, there’s something about being taken out of your, kind of day to day environment
and being in a different place with different surroundings that is just like, oh, did you forget? It’s
like all the time I say, did you forget that we are on this floating ball of rock and water orbiting a
star? Because I think you need to remember that. And like, stop thinking about whatever bullshit
is occupying your mind just like, you know. So I love retreats for that.
[00:27:07] I also, as a participant in retreats, especially being a person who has an
extraordinarily full life, right? I have my business, my clients, my podcast, my children, my dogs,
my home, you know, my community,
[00:27:25] Lesley Whitehead: Right.
[00:27:25] Natalie Miller: I’ve got a lot going on. when I would go to a retreat and the retreat
would be like 10 AM 11:30, break for lunch, 1:15 I, it was like, it was so much. And I, I like a lot of
alone time also. Um, so I do, I learned very, very quickly that my retreats were most successful.
when I had ample time built in, like you’ve said, to, maybe you need a nap. Maybe you want to
go browse the cute little boutiques in town and spend way too much money. Maybe you want
maybe you met someone on the retreat and you two hit it off and you just want to sit on the patio
and talk about life, you know. I, I love to build in all the space for that.
[00:28:18] Um, and I also love to curate extraordinary experiences. So can I actually, can I tell
you what’s happening in the next Luminous Taos?
[00:28:29] Lesley Whitehead: Yes, please!
[00:28:30] Natalie Miller: You might have to come again. You might have to again, Lesley. So,
um, so this year in 2024, I’m collaborating, co-creating with an artist.

[00:28:41] Her name is Ashley Tribue.
[00:28:43] Lesley Whitehead: Okay.
[00:28:44] Natalie Miller: And Ashley has something called the Take Your Body Back Project,
where she sketches people. She sketches them from nude or close to nude photographs. So
she’s an artist and you get to have yourself, it’s like, know, boudoir photography, but it’s boudoir
portraiture, basically. So the next Luminous is a Take Your Body Back edition, and it’s gonna be
very body positivity focused, body celebration focused, and instead of a photo shoot, which is
what we, what we’ve done for the last couple of years, you’re going to get drawn like a French
girl! I’m so excited.
[00:29:27] Lesley Whitehead: I love that! Oh my god. That is exciting, I’m gonna look her up
rIght away.
[00:29:33] Natalie Miller: And you know, it feels like it also goes with the place because like you
said, Mabel’s House is extraordinary because in the early 20th century, there was this whole
group of artists who didn’t want to be, copiers of European tradition. They wanted to make, you
know, like art of the United States, or they would call it American art. And, you know, both
problematically and sort of commonsensically, they looked to the West, and they looked to
native cultures and they looked to, what was sort of originally here and tried to tap into that
spirit.
[00:30:21] Now, of course, they did some appropriation as they did, but I think the sense really
was like, um, there is already art of this continent and we want to be, we want to be a part of it.
So at Mabel’s house, because Mabel was a, Mabel was a New York socialite, but at Mabel’s
house, she had Georgia O’Keeffe there. And she had Ansel Adams there and she had writers
there. She had DH Lawrence there. She Willa Cather there. She had, carl Jung went there.
[00:30:52] Like they would go out, you know, into the middle of the high desert in New Mexico in
the mountainous desert of New Mexico, and basically like lived in this communeish way with
Mabel and her, her native husband, Tony Lujan. So yeah, when we go, like you, you can stay in
the room Willa Cather stayed in, it’s very fun.
[00:31:18] Lesley Whitehead: It’s funny because the other thing that it felt like was, it actually
felt like we were coming to your house and you were, um, hosting us all there because I, I don’t
know how to explain it, but it didn’t feel like it was somebody else’s place. First of all, we were
the only ones there. We don’t share the space with anyone else. So that is key. And then, um, I
don’t know. It just, it felt like we were going to Natalie’s house and we all had our own beautiful
rooms and
[00:31:52] Natalie Miller: What’s, what’s interesting I think is that, um, I’m from New Mexico. I’m
not from Taos, but I am from New Mexico and it was in was in 2016. I had this very strong
feeling I was meant to do a retreat in New Mexico. And I, my dad was, was still living in New
Mexico at that time. And I called my dad and I was like, hey dad, you want to come drive me
around Northern New Mexico to look at retreat centers? Um, and he did.
[00:32:24] And when I came to Mabel’s house, and this is a, I won’t go into the long, very
magical story about it all. Basically, I, I almost didn’t go there, but I, I did end up going. When I
walked in Lesley, my, my eyes actually filled with tears. I was overcome with the feel of that
place. And, did feel like it was kind of part of my home. And so since then, since, since 2017,
except in high pandemic times, I’ve gone every year. I go every year, sometimes more than
once.
[00:33:00] Lesley Whitehead: Oh my gosh. I, and, and you also don’t, the group is not large, so
it’s not, you know, you’re not there with 40 people. It’s a small, intimate group and so it’s easy to
connect and be a part of that. And also that’s a little bit maybe also why it feels like you’re the

host hosting in your because it doesn’t feel like a retreat in that, you know, or conference or in
way. And that’s beautiful.
[00:33:32] Natalie Miller: Yeah. I like for the group to be big enough that there will be different
people, right? So big enough that like some of us have kids and some of us don’t have kids and,
you know, some of us are partnered and some of us aren’t partnered and, you know, I, I like, I
like for there to be diversity that way. But,
[00:33:53] there’s always just a deep soul resonance among the people. Like the people are not
the same, but they are like, like spirited or like hearted or something. And so, real bonds forge.
[00:34:07] I actually, now I, I like people to have single rooms, but once upon a time people
would room together. And I know two sets of roommates from Taos who became, like, besties,
and they are still best frIends.
[00:34:20] Lesley Whitehead: Well, I definitely keep in touch with everyone, because it’s a
beautiful group. And as you were talking about that, what vision came to me was a moth to a
flame. You’re the flame, you’re the light. And so doesn’t surprise me that that happens very
organically because the people that are interested, that want to hear from you, that you are
surrounded by are like minded, even if they’re not similar in their life. You know, how they live or
who they are. So that’s beautiful.
[00:34:51] And, the other opportunity that I’ve had to work with you is with your, um, coaching
group that you created called Crucible, which was so much fun. It was a seven week, coaching
group, that would meet and I don’t want to say the goal because I don’t think that was really the
point, but it was, do you have a project or something that you are trying to birth get done? This is
your opportunity. We’re going to support you in that.
[00:35:19] And so, it’s funny because when I joined the group, it was last fall and I thought that
what I was launching at the time was my podcast. But actually what I was launching and what I
completed in that time was my 55 Women Project launch party for the book that I’m going to be
presenting. So it was really funny because I went in with this one idea, which of course I did
launch the podcast, but I didn’t realize until I was in it that I needed to get that, launch party
done before this could happen. So I’m sure you’ve seen that over and over. Can you describe
little bit about the group and what you saw?
[00:36:01] Natalie Miller: Well, I guess, know, what, what Crucible is about is sort of saying, I
know you have this idea and you’ve been hesitating bringing it to life. And I think a lot of,
coaching, frankly, is about what’s your goal and how do you accomplish it, right? It’s like, okay,
what’s the goal? Let’s work backwards from the goal. Let’s find milestones. Let’s, and I just, that
shit has never worked for me.
[00:36:35] I think especially, and I wonder if you agree with this. I think especially for creatives,
like we’re just not that linear, actually. We’re just not that linear. We’re very sensitive. and for me,
you know, there’s so many ideas in here. Like, like you, right? You’re like, I want to do a podcast,
but first I got to get this book launched. Right?
[00:36:58] So really, really what Crucible is about is like, yes, there’s a project that I’m hoping to
help you take action on, and I, I, I’m hoping to help you action on an idea, but it’s less about the
idea and so much more about you. Who are you, what holds you back? What do you need to
support you? What are the mindset blocks, the doubts, the fears, the imposter bullshit? Like
what, what is in the way? What is between you and this idea coming into the world? And you
know, when the focus is on you, when it’s on the creator rather than idea, then whatever is kind
of meant to be created, whatever is best aligned, that’s what ends up coming out of it.
[00:37:57] And so what I hope is that people leave, not like, I accomplished my goal. Like, uh,
and it’s cool if you accomplish your goal, but, but more than that, it’s like, oh, I have so much

more respect for my creative process, and I how to work with it. Or gosh, I have been asking
myself to create while I’m surviving on crumbs of inspiration. I have learned how to, how to have
big ass chunks of bread of inspiration rather than crumbs, you know?
[00:38:33] So that’s really what I’m hoping is that, you know, your, your relationship to your
creativity is what changes and evolves. And then, of course, because that’s how it works, people
do leave and they create their new offers, they create their podcasts. I think, yeah, they write the
book, they, they do the thing.
[00:38:58] Lesley Whitehead: I saw over and over again. One of the things that you focused on
and also in, in another group I’m going to talk about is treats. Can we talk a little bit about treats
and, um, what treats are?
[00:39:14] So most people would think, well, a treat is something you receive after you’ve done
whatever the job was that you needed to do. And what you are talking about is no, you can’t do
the thing until you fuel yourself in the ways that you need to. Whether it’s through something
physical, something that you need to eat, some sleep, a nap, um, it could also be something like
racing a race car like we’ve just heard from one of the members. So, um, talk a little bit about
treats.
[00:39:53] Natalie Miller: Hmm.
[00:39:54] Lesley Whitehead: Please.
[00:39:55] Natalie Miller: So this is a concept that I was first introduced to by
[00:40:00] Gretchen Rubin actually. Gretchen Rubin in her book, you know, she’s the Happiness
Project, Four Tendencies lady, she a book about habit making called Better Than Before. She
talks about treats there, and I took her idea and I, I ran with it and I exploded it, because I found
it so useful for me.
[00:40:20] So I think, you know, not only do people think of treats as like rewards, people also
think of treats as a bonus or an extra. Oh, that’s not necessary, that’s just a treat. And, to me,
like my definition of a treat is anything that wakes you up to life. Anything that connects you with
the abundance and wonder of this life. And so there’s one woman who was like, oh, I want to lie
in the grass. And I’m like, Oh God, I would never lie in the grass. That’s not, that’s not for me.
Right? So, so treats are very, very individual is what I’m saying. She wants to lie in the grass.
Other people want to go for a hike. Other people want to rest in a luxury hotel room. Other
people want to have sex. Other people want to read a novel.
[00:41:18] You know, for me, a huge treat is going to the public library and just browsing. I like to
browse the new books. I like to browse the cookbooks. Um, I like to browse, uh, the graphic
novels for my daughters. Um, That’s a huge treat for me because when I do that, I just, I can’t
believe how creative people are, how prolific. I can’t believe that together, especially at a time
when we are just getting so much wrong, we still do this thing together where we fund public
libraries and I just find that amazing. And so, you know, when I go to a library, I am opening up
to and connecting with so much that is good.
[00:42:09] The more I do that, the more connected I am, the easier it is to be in that state of
abundant co creation. If I’m skimping. and saving and withdrawing from the world, if I’m trying to
do what they tell you to do, buckle down, nose to the grindstone, eyes on the prize. For me, all
of that, like, as I say those phrases, Lesley, I just think of this like narrowing, narrowing,
narrowing, narrowing. And for me, treats are this expansive, it’s like, oh my gosh, look, like I’m
just surrounded by miracle. And for me, that’s the place where all the good work happens from
that place where you’re just like saturated in that connection.

[00:43:10] Lesley Whitehead: It reminds me of Julia Cameron’s,
[00:43:14] advice in her book, which is, um, take yourself on a date every week, a two hour date
by yourself for inspiration. And it could be a walk in the woods or whatever, but the treat idea
reminds me of that, but a bigger, broader way.
[00:43:31] Natalie Miller: Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, the other thing I love about treats
as a coach is that as you treat yourself, you will excavate every limiting belief. Like,
[00:43:48] Lesley Whitehead: Right, right.
[00:43:49] Natalie Miller: every self worth issue, every bit of social conditioning that is trying to
keep you small and settling, you will encounter it.
[00:44:00] And, you know, I remember once upon a time, a, a treat for me was knitting in the
middle of the day. Like sitting with a, sitting with a knitting project and knitting just like 2:30 PM.
That felt like a real treat to allow myself to do that. Now a treat is like, could I do two weeks in
Maine this summer, instead of just one? Ooh, two weeks, that would be a treat.
[00:44:29] So I’ve really worked my way up. As I work my way up. I come face to face with
whatever limiting belief that says, you know, that’s too much. That’s indulgent, that’s selfish, et
cetera. So I love treats for just helping us to really grapple with and work through some of that
societal conditioning that keeps us so, so small and hungry.
[00:45:00] Lesley Whitehead: Well, you’ve created a treat for us, which is Time Witchery
Planner, which is a huge treat. And when I joined Crucible, I got a copy of it and, um, I’m
addicted to it. I go to it every day um, I love it. So it’s almost like a mini coaching session with
Natalie, that’s what it feels like, because it talks about, vibes and values, and then, um, beliefs
and, um, fuel and what you have today. And then what you’re letting go of, the most important
thing, and appreciation. So that’s a very brief description of it, but I would love to hear you talk
about Time Witchery and how it came about.
[00:45:44] Natalie Miller: yeah. About, yeah. So, time witchery. there’s a lot of witchery around
here. Um, so, so, and P. S. Lesley, I’m oh my gosh, this is like a tour Natalie’s offers this like,
wow, thank you. Um, okay. Yeah. So, so, I discovered in, I don’t know, somewhere in the, in the
2010s, um, I discovered a planner that Danielle Laporte created. Did you ever know this, the
desire map planner?
[00:46:18] Lesley Whitehead: Oh, I had it.
[00:46:19] Natalie Miller: Yeah. Yeah. So she doesn’t make it anymore. Um, and I don’t know
why, but the desire map planner was a very different kind of planner because it was actually not
all about like, what you were going to do that day. It had other prompts or it had other… it wasn’t
just about what you were going to do. And so I loved those planners, and, and realized that
when I expanded my daily focus from my to do list into these other areas, I just was so much
more prolific and so much more, um, connected again, so much more effective. Like I just, took
more action and, um, I grew. I, that’s really what it is. I grew.
[00:47:06] Lesley Whitehead: Yes.
[00:47:07] Natalie Miller: So she wasn’t making them anymore. I have a client that I had turned
on to that planner, that was like, well, You need to do it.
[00:47:20] Lesley Whitehead: Create the thing you want to see in the world?
[00:47:23] Natalie Miller: Exactly. Yeah. She’s like, she’s like, I’m waiting. So you just let me
know when it’s available. And so, um, so I did decide to make it and to design it. And yeah, I like

to call it an anti planner, because it is, it is not actually so much about planning as it is about.
being and flowing. It’s like a flower. It’s like, it, it, it asks you like, it asks you to be really present
with yourself and with your day and what’s happening. Um, it builds in this idea that we need
fuel, that we can’t just expect ourselves to keep doing and accomplishing without receiving any,
any fuel or, any treats, any pleasure. So yeah, I like to say it’s for your human being, not your
human doing.
[00:48:20] Lesley Whitehead: I love that.
[00:48:21] Natalie Miller: Of course
[00:48:21] I will say, Lesley, I love, I love Time Witchery. I also, version two already lives in my
head. So I’m like, okay, what did I get? Yeah, totally. Oh my gosh. Of course. I’m like, Ooh, you
know what else would be great? Or you know what I want to do instead? So, do you do that
when you look back at your work sometimes? Do you want to like do over or do differently?
[00:48:42] Lesley Whitehead: Yes absolutely. The projects that I’ve created. Yes. I’ve thought,
oh yeah, but then that’ll be the 2.0. And I was talking to my last guest about that, you know, how
many versions of the iPhone do we have? Nothing is perfect right out. Right. We have to release
it into the world to figure out where it needs to go next.
[00:49:04] Natalie Miller: And that does circle back to that idea of co creation also, right? It’s
like, well, when I made Time Witchery, I was co-creating in one particular moment with certain
influences, and now I’m in a different moment. And I have different inspirations and I have
different influences and different things that are working for me and so it, it will evolve, but for,
for now, there are plenty of Time Witcheries to go around.
[00:49:30] Lesley Whitehead: Good, good. So then when you receive a time witchery, there’s
also additionally, I think you put together a video series, right?
[00:49:40] Natalie Miller: It’s an audio course.
[00:49:41] Lesley Whitehead: Audio. So not only do you get the Time Witchery planner, but you
also get you explaining different ways to use it because there is no one right way. For instance,
the calendar doesn’t have to be a calendar of days, right?
[00:49:58] Natalie Miller: Right. yeah, because I wanted there to be a lot of space in Time
Witchery for creativity. Like I definitely, I, I appreciate the bullet journalers out there. I could
never. I could never.
[00:50:12] Lesley Whitehead: I tried, I tried, I failed.
[00:50:14] Natalie Miller: I also tried, I like, it’s, it’s like, Natalie needs something, some kind of
structure. Put me in some kind of room, please. Like, don’t, don’t leave me in a void of dots.
[00:50:27] Lesley Whitehead: Right.
[00:50:27] Natalie Miller: Don’t leave me in a void of dots! But I wanted it to be somewhat
flexible and you know, the audio course, Lesley is also about…
[00:50:37] It is deeply counter cultural this anti planner. And so, unfortunately I need to explain
what fuel is, like what I mean by that. And I think, to talk about what does it look like to really
think about your values and your vibes and why is that important? And how do you even come
up with that? So yeah, the audio course is there to support because it is, it’s a very different way,
of approaching the beginning your day,

[00:51:08] Lesley Whitehead: And what I meant when I said calendar was actually the monthly
calendar, there are individual days, of course, for those things that I mentioned, but then there’s
the monthly calendar, which you had other suggestions for.
[00:51:20] Natalie Miller: Yeah. Yeah. Cause there’s all kinds of things you do with it. Some
people love to see their month at a glance. I’m not one of those people. I’m barely seeing this
afternoon at a glance. I’m so hyper present.
[00:51:35] Lesley Whitehead: But you know what’s been wonderful is the way that you think
and the way your brain works has been great for me because it’s made me look at, change my
perspective and look at things differently as well. really appreciate that so much.
[00:51:49] All right. I do want to talk about, uh, Main Character Magic, because we’re wrapping
that up this week. What’s interesting about you is your coaching. There’s no, it’s not like you go
to your website and there’s a list of your coaching opportunities. They’re very, just like you, very
organic. And you’ll say, I’ve come up with Cauldron, and Cauldron is here for this, and Crucible
is here for this, but it’s, it’s very organic and I love that. And so you came up with Main Character
Magic for the last couple of months of the year. And I really enjoyed it. It’s been a big group,
probably the biggest group I’ve been in so far with you.
[00:52:29] Natalie Miller: Yeah, there are a lot of people in there. And, and it’s so interesting,
right, Lesley, because I think, you know,
[00:52:35] anyone who’s listening, who has a business or an online business, like what we’re
taught is you have to figure out your offer and then iterate on your offer and perfect your offer
and keep enrolling people in your offer and listen, I, I tried. It just doesn’t work for me.
[00:52:53] Lesley Whitehead: I envision you saying to, um, Sami and the group, okay, uh, I’ve
come up with this, this idea, this is what I’m going to do. And then we’re going to create it, right?
Like, I don’t feel like this is like preplanned on September 10th. We know we’re going do this.
[00:53:10] Natalie Miller: No never, in fact every business coach who has tried to get me to
think about Q anything. Q1, Q2, like I just, I, I can’t, and this is something that I’m still coming to
really honor about and accept in myself
[00:53:29] I am a very present moment being. That’s where my inspiration is. You know, if we
kind of circle back to where you were talking about my coaching, like, how do you do that? I’m
just completely here. When I’m talking to a client, I am with them 100 percent like here. I’m not
going forward to any like, objective or goal. I’m no, let’s just be fully here with you. So I have to
be fully here with myself too.
[00:54:00] And yeah, Main Character Magic, it was something that I was, like, noticing, I was
feeling into, it’s something that I was working with myself. That’s also a key for me when I’m
working with it myself, it’s going to be, it’s going to be pretty magical. And so, yeah, on a total
whim, I was like… oh, I had actually, I had one client, I think a crucible, a round of Crucible was
ending. And I had one client who was like, Oh, I don’t want to stop meeting, what’s next?
[00:54:26] Lesley Whitehead: I think we all said that, I think we all said that. That wasn’t just
one person.
[00:54:32] Natalie Miller: Yeah, well, and, and so I was kind like shrug, I don’t really have a
plan. And I, I don’t, well, I’ll do Main Character Magic. And, you know, and I said to myself, you
know, as long as I have like six people it’ll be fine. And it’s enormous. Yeah. It really, um, it did
well.
[00:54:51] But you know, I want to say that, especially for your, your, your entrepreneurial
listeners out there, Lesley, because it’s like,

[00:54:59] the best way is actually the way works for you. Someone else does not know the best
way to do this. You know the best way to do this. It’s the way that goes with your own energy
and inspiration and the way that you create and the way that feels good to you, that is best way.
I promise.
[00:55:21] Lesley Whitehead: And that’s what you are beautiful at pulling out of people and
getting them to recognize and helping them see. That’s what’s so beautiful about your gift is that
through your podcast, through your letter, through coaching, through your retreats, through your
free offers, like unhexing procrastination, all those things you are gifting that. And we re, we all
really appreciate it.
[00:55:49] Natalie Miller: Thank you so much, Lesley. I really, I feel that. Thank you.
[00:55:54] Lesley Whitehead: Good, good, I’m so glad. Well, I have to ask, is there anything
else that I missed that you would like to discuss?
[00:56:02] Natalie Miller: No, oh my gosh. You, I, I loved, I loved getting to reflect on all of these
different, um, different aspects of my work, Lesley, like, thank you so much for asking about
them. It’s interesting, know, when you’re in your life, you’re just in your life. And so when you
take these steps back, I’m like, Oh wow, this is a… this is a whole thing, isn’t it?
[00:56:25] Lesley Whitehead: I am Oprah like. Own that.
[00:56:30] Natalie Miller: All right. I’ll I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m going to work on it.
[00:56:34] Lesley Whitehead: Okay, the other thing I have to ask is, what would people be
surprised to know about you?
[00:56:40] Natalie Miller: Hmm. What would people be surprised to know about me? Gosh,
Lesley, I am such an open book. Like, like, I don’t know. I’m like, I’m weird. I’m a weird open
book.
[00:56:57] Lesley Whitehead: You’re not weird, but you’re definitely an open book.
[00:57:00] Natalie Miller: Like, what would people be surprised to know about me? I think the
thing I’m going to say is. Well, I don’t know. It’s the only thing that comes to mind. A lot of times
when I talk with people, especially people who’ve kind of been like following my work for a while,
they’re like, oh, wise, grounded being, you know? I overheard someone at a retreat once being
like, I really thought she’d be taller. So be so I
[00:57:43] Lesley Whitehead: And have a halo?
[00:57:46] Natalie Miller: And, you know, on the one part, like I do want to celebrate, like, yeah,
I actually like, I have been brave enough to do what I really want to do in this world. And that is
the secret in my opinion, do what you really want to do. That’s the secret to success. And so,
you know, in a way I feel like, yeah, like I, I, I can acknowledge that I have, found it.
[00:58:06] At the same time,
[00:58:07] I think the thing that people might be surprised to know is like, I am fully still a middle
aged white woman living in the United States. I have my insecurities that I’m still working with. I
get really annoyed parking lots, like, you know, it’s like, I, like, I’m,
[00:58:37] Lesley Whitehead: Human.

[00:58:38] Natalie Miller: I’m so human. Like I’m really right there. I’m really right there in it. And
I don’t know, I don’t know how that sounds to come across, but I think, you know, like does
mindset work and coaching and Mind Witchery, does it work? Yes, totally does work, but I still
live on planet Earth. I’m still a human on planet Earth. So I get tripped up all the time. I spend all
kinds of money on LED devices for my aging skin. I don’t know, right? a real, I’m real ass, real
ass person over here.
[00:59:07] Lesley Whitehead: And we all appreciate it. All right, Natalie, I am so grateful that
you were here and my guest, um, in this new year, because actually this will be, um, the first
podcast for 2024, so I’m really excited about that.
[00:59:23] Natalie Miller: I love it! Happy new year. Do whatever you want this year. The best
way to spend this year is doing what you want. Follow Lesley’s lead. Follow Lesley’s lead. She’s
doing it. She’s doing it. We’re doing it. Come do it with us.
[00:59:39] Lesley Whitehead: We are, we’re doing it. Absolutely. All right. How can any
everybody find you? That’s the, the most important thing. Where do they find you?
[00:59:48] Natalie Miller: Yeah. Well, Mind Witchery is my podcast. You can find that wherever
you found this one And if you’d like the Sunday letter, you can get the Sunday letter at my
website, which is nataliekmiller.com.
[00:59:59] Lesley Whitehead: Wonderful. Natalie, thank you so much. I am so, so grateful for
you and for all this time you’ve given us. It’s been such a treat. It’s been a treat!
[01:00:11] Natalie Miller: It’s been a treat for me, too. It’s been a treat for me too. Thanks,
Lesley.
[01:00:15] Lesley Whitehead: Thank you.
[01:00:16] Thank you so much for joining me today. I hope you found this episode inspiring as
well as entertaining. If you want more out of the box wisdom from boots on the ground, creative,
brave women like this one, subscribe to Her Story So Far podcast wherever you listen, and
please share this link with anyone who needs some inspiration. To receive more wisdom in your
inbox, sign up for my weekly letter at Lesleywhiteheadphotography. com.
[01:00:45] Her Story So Far podcast is produced in conjunction with mad talented executive
producer K.O. Myers at Particulate Media.
[01:00:56] Thank you to all my beautiful bold guests, without them there would be no show.
[01:01:01] Until next time, get out there and make yourself visible to the world. We need you and
your creation. If no one has told you today, you are beautiful.
[01:01:14] So, um, I. Just went blank. Thank God chaos going to be fixing
[01:01:25] Natalie Miller: you, honey. Thank
[01:01:28] Lesley Whitehead: such a good man.

Her Story So Far

Her Story So Far focuses on outside-the-box conversations with badass female creatives. These women are birthing amazing passion projects in the 2nd and 3rd chapters of their lives. Host Lesley Whitehead is an artist, visual storyteller and multi-passionate marketer. She believes age shouldn’t stop you from achieving your dreams or make you invisible to the world. Join us to be inspired by the wit, wisdom and one-of-a-kind experiences of these amazing women.

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